The Future of Recording Studios

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In this engaging conversation, Mike and Eddy discuss their excitement for an upcoming guest, the challenges of booking studio time, and the impact of social media on productivity. They explore the resurgence of recording studios and the evolution of music production, emphasizing the value of live recording experiences and the importance of minimizing distractions in a digital age.

Chapters

00:00 Excitement for a Special Guest
02:59 The Journey to Book the Guest
06:04 Navigating Phone Addiction and Minimalism
08:57 The Impact of Social Media on Productivity
11:56 The Resurgence of Recording Studios
14:53 The Evolution of Music Production
17:53 The Value of Live Recording Experiences
25:13 Cherishing the Creative Process
29:02 The Studio as a Creative Playground
30:39 The Importance of Patience in Music Creation
33:12 Modern Technology and Its Impact on Music
34:46 The Value of Studio Experience
36:53 The Challenge of Simplicity in Drumming
41:00 Navigating the Recording Environment
45:43 The Excitement of Industry Events

Transcript

Mike Johnston (00:00.845)
Here we go, here we go. Dude, we won't say, I don't wanna spoil it, but February 1st, do you remember my voice note about our special guest?

Eddy (00:01.932)
Are we alive?

Eddy (00:11.182)
mate, I did, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm very excited, mate. This guess will be the first guess we've had in probably, yeah, I was gonna say a long time, maybe more. No pressure, mate, no pressure.

Mike Johnston (00:20.623)
Probably two years. Maybe more. Yeah. So let's think. Guests that we've had. We've had Lou Montulli. We've had Kyle from Sociology. We've had... And Ann Duskiss. We've had Ann, yeah. Ann Duskiss. We've never had like... We've never had a professional drummer on. yeah. Okay. There we go. Carter McLean. Is that it?

Eddy (00:29.142)
Yep. Carter.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So for a drumming podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And then Carter. Oh, we've had, yeah, yeah, we've had Carter. We've had Carter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that.

Mike Johnston (00:50.551)
Are those all the guests that we've had in 185 episodes?

Eddy (00:53.742)
I think, how have we managed to keep this going for so long with just me and you? I mean, we must be egomaniacs, Or do we?

Mike Johnston (00:59.829)
I think that's actually I was gonna say I can tell you exactly how we've done it We don't want we don't want a third person interrupting our flow. It's like hey stay out of our lane, dude We got this. my goodness. Well, I'm excited for the guest. It'll be amazing

Eddy (01:08.878)
Exactly mate, exactly. But I mean... So how did that come around?

Mike Johnston (01:16.239)
I think, I'm trying to think, someone said that they knew the tour manager of the band that he plays for.

and they were going to put us in touch and then that maybe that I'm sure that person followed through but that never happened. And then I think I just honestly like search showed me this person's page and I because I didn't know who it was and then I was like I'm going to reach out and just send a little fan letter and so I did and then he got back to me and we started talking and we're all three of us are very similar. Very similar.

Eddy (01:41.762)
Yeah.

Eddy (01:53.484)
Okay, cool.

Mike Johnston (01:56.041)
And we just and then I just and he said, hey, like I've heard you've mentioned me on the podcast a couple of times and I was like, more than a couple, buddy. Yeah, you're kind of the theme of the podcast in the last year. But anyways, so he mentioned that and I and I was trying really casually to be like.

Eddy (02:05.656)
More than a couple,

Mike Johnston (02:15.937)
you're invited anytime you want, but please don't, this isn't like a, I hate that like, will you do my podcast thing? Because then it's a yes or no. And now I'm making you feel guilty. It's like, you don't have to, but if you ever just want a place to come chat drums, we've got a space for you. And he was like, dude, that sounds amazing.

Eddy (02:23.36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know.

Eddy (02:33.002)
Also, it's like, it's not an interview as well. Like we are the Joe Rogan of that world, I feel. Cause like, don't like, I love the way Joe Rogan just has a chat and it could be about anything. It's not about like someone's latest tour or their latest book or film or whatever. It's just a conversation. So I'm looking forward to talking to him about, I don't know, a bit about everything. But yeah, exactly.

Mike Johnston (02:56.034)
about everything.

Yeah, and he definitely identifies a lot with because he's listened to the podcast. So he's like, man, tell Eddie, like, I totally, totally identify with what he's gone through on the road and all those things. And I did slip in. was like, well, then you identify with both of us because I'm a road dog, too. It just stopped in 2003, but I'm a road dog. OK, like you want to talk about coach versus prevo who makes the better bus? Like I'm in the conversation. He's

Eddy (03:23.736)
Yeah.

Eddy (03:29.289)
Hahaha!

Mike Johnston (03:29.529)
Yeah, old man, why don't you just step aside and let the kids talk about modern music? I'm just sitting in a rocking chair watching you guys. I've got my lemonade. I'm like, that's what the kids are doing How are you man? yeah, go ahead

Eddy (03:35.982)
That is brilliant, mate. I can't wait for that, mate.

Eddy (03:42.03)
So is that net that's Well, I'm here. I'm good. I'm no no don't know I was gonna I was gonna ask a stupid question like normal, but man I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm I had to turn the heating on because it's still like minus whatever it is here in the UK, but I'm I'm I'm good mate. It's all starting to pick up again As you as we know from the voice notes that we've been sending each other it's all a bit hectic you're around my end and Yeah, I'm just trying to

I don't know man, just play more drums and practise and yeah, just get into a routine for this year. Trying to figure out what it is as we go, but yeah man, I'm good man, I'm good. I'm just playing drums and having fun.

Mike Johnston (04:20.963)
Yeah. Well, it's too bad that there's a lot of things going on that we'll never be able to talk about. So we'll just leave it at that. But I can tell I just want everyone to know that.

Eddy (04:28.172)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Mike Johnston (04:35.457)
Eddie and I are doing some cool things and for some weird reason it's very Mission Impossible. It's very top secret but there's something I can share with you and I think any listener of a podcast appreciates a visual moment that no one will ever see but can I show you my current home screen on my phone?

Eddy (04:41.4)
Very. Very.

Eddy (04:53.472)
Yeah, yeah, let's see it, let's see it. And it's me. That's such a good picture of me as well. I love that. Come on autofocus, there we go.

Mike Johnston (04:58.478)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (05:02.479)
I'll pull it back. that's those are my apps. That's it. That's my home screen. There are no more apps. It's just messages. know that no one right, right? That's that is my entire phone. There's no Instagram. There's no nothing. Yeah, so

Eddy (05:11.82)
How do you do that?

Eddy (05:20.888)
How do you, right, let's talk through what you just showed me there.

Mike Johnston (05:25.589)
Well, so there's a phone called a light phone. Look it up right now. Look up light phone two. So the light phone is basically a way to get off of like the chaos that our phones are causing us to go through. Great. If you're camping a lot, I guess. But if you run a business, it's like, I'm sorry, that's not an option. Like, I just can't. But my

Eddy (05:29.9)
Okay.

Eddy (05:51.736)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (05:53.967)
You see what I'm saying? And it's minimalistic, it's E Ink. So if you take a picture, it's only showing up in E Ink black and white. So it's basically the counterculture phone, right? Like we don't need.

Eddy (05:54.87)
Yeah, very, very minimalistic.

Eddy (06:04.472)
Okay. Okay.

Eddy (06:09.624)
Got you.

Mike Johnston (06:11.619)
TikTok and it's like, okay, well, that's why you have your burner phone. That's your TikTok phone is because you do need it because you're addicted. So I've definitely been feeling that pull of like, my gosh, this keeps happening. Like I keep saying like, I'm not into this stuff. And then I find myself like literally at the studio. I'm in front of my computer where I've got access to all the information in the world.

Eddy (06:16.462)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike Johnston (06:35.759)
I'm in the middle of an edit, I'm actually being productive, and then it could be like six minutes that I've been just staring at my phone because a reel on Instagram caught me and I went to the next one and I went to the next one and I honestly, all jokes aside, I honestly don't know what's happening until it hits about that six, seven minute mark and I'm like, geez Louise, I'm like, I got to get off this thing. So anyways, I was looking into the light phone and then practicality kicked in and I was like, okay, well, so I'll never send Eddie another voice note. Honestly, that was a big part of me not getting the

phone is it doesn't do voice notes and I was like well then okay yeah I mean I can lose Instagram but we're not losing the voice notes that's my therapy so so then I just started looking and I don't know if you'd seen my phone before but it was always these like black and white icons like I had all the apps but they didn't look like the apps they weren't colorful it was just black and white

Eddy (07:07.662)
Yeah, I bet, Yeah, no, we're good. Yeah, we're good.

No. Exactly.

Mike Johnston (07:25.847)
So I just looked into different things that provided that streamlined, minimalistic approach, but to the iPhone. And there's an app called Dumbphone. it does exactly, literally D-U-M-B P-H-O-N-E.

Eddy (07:41.71)
I like that, I like the name of that. Okay, I'm checking it out.

Mike Johnston (07:44.249)
dumb phone and then you just choose. Now you still have all your apps. just have to swipe a couple screens to get to them and then it's in that big giant group where Apple dumps all your apps.

Eddy (07:56.525)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (07:57.859)
But yeah, so basically when I open my home screen, have just for everybody that's like, dude, move on. We can't see your stupid phone. I just have text. Like there's a text that says, so just words, it says messages, phone, podcasts, camera, calendar, Spotify, and mail. So just in a list of white text on a black background, that's all my home screen is. There are no app icons. And then I just click on mail or Spotify or calendar or camera, and you choose what goes there.

I think about seven fit on on a home screen and then everything else it's it takes more friction to get there So I don't have easy access to Instagram I still have Instagram, but I have to like swipe a couple screens go through like where's the the social Group and then I so it takes me like probably like three to four steps to open Instagram Takes me more steps to open other things. So I'm just trying to like slow that dopamine addiction down and I'm not I'm

I'm not kidding, I'm not okay with this. I'm not happy. You and I talked about it in voice notes for last two days. I'm just...

Eddy (09:02.862)
I'm the same, I'm exactly the same, mate. I remember after my, well, just before the course came out, I sat there and I remember sending you a voice note and I literally said to Rona, my wife, was like, look, I'm gonna actually turn my phone off if you need me, you know where I am. So, you know, see you later sort of thing. And that was at like, I don't know, like nine or 10 in the morning and then I kind of turned it back on at like, I don't know, three or four.

Mike Johnston (09:21.783)
at the bar. I'm at the pub.

Eddy (09:31.158)
and I had done more work than I'd ever done in my life in a day. Like genuinely, like I'm not even exaggerating. I had edited like three videos that normally one video would take me like a week, maybe even more. I did three, finished it all and I felt incredible. And I didn't feel like I missed out on anything because I was being proactive. And the worst thing at the minute is because of the other business that I do, as you know, we're posting on TikTok every day.

Mike Johnston (09:36.244)
Totally. Right.

Mike Johnston (09:45.902)
Right.

Eddy (10:00.94)
So like, I can't be editing a video every day and then being on TikTok every day, that just will blow my mind with negativity. So we're now editing content on one or two days and that will last the whole week. But mate, I'm the same. I can go to post a video and then 15 minutes, 20 minutes later, I wouldn't have posted the video. I was just caught in the, I was caught. They got me and I didn't do anything apart from scroll.

Mike Johnston (10:23.693)
Right.

Mike Johnston (10:27.32)
Yeah.

No, see, that's the thing is I've been feeling like I'm above all this. Like I look at my nieces and nephew scrolling through TikTok like they literally the phone is millimeters away from their eyeballs. And I'm like, what a sad generation. And then I'm over in the corner scrolling through Instagram. And I'm like, well, but these are reels. This is totally different. This isn't that like and then it's like, no, it's not. This is like some guy that like like walks up to a bear in a forest and punches it. And then the bear swipes off half of his face.

Eddy (10:45.486)
Yeah.

Eddy (10:51.811)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (10:57.761)
I'm like, you deserve that Tom. And then I go to the next one. And it's some guy that's like, well, we're in the shadows of the Shire. And I'm like, wow, he's in New Zealand. He's visiting Frodo's little hub. And I'm like, what the fuck? What is going on? I'm missing out on real life because of this thing. And I know saying that sounds like I'm a thousand years old, but I personally am invested right now in finding a balance of, look, I run a business. I cannot get off of all social media. It's not an option for me.

Eddy (11:09.07)
I know, mate. It is scary, man.

Eddy (11:25.486)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (11:27.277)
But on a personal level, I have to. Like, I don't enjoy this. It's when I think about what brings my day any sort of negativity and on the lightest level, because I don't want to make any light of it, but on the lightest level, depression, it literally just stems from that. There's at no time am I like having a bad day because of something that's like you and me, me and Ollie, like me and Finn, even when Finn's

like barfed, by the way, that's why we're getting our carpets cleaned today. Finn just barfed in the studio. And I was like, Finn. But like, I'm not depressed. I'm not like wondering if I'm doing the right thing with my career. I'm just like, Finn. So anyways, long story short, we'll talk more about it in the future because I think you and I are both trying to find our balance. But also the tough thing for you is your second business. That is what TikTok and Instagram has become. It's become a marketplace.

Eddy (12:05.826)
Yeah.

Eddy (12:14.402)
Yeah, let me know how it's... Exactly.

Eddy (12:25.315)
yeah, yeah.

Mike Johnston (12:25.727)
And so it makes sense for Paragon to be there and to be there in full force because it's like, well, how else would anybody even know that you guys existed in the first place?

Eddy (12:33.228)
Yeah, man, I just feel like social media more than ever. And like we keep referring to, we've sent a lot of voice notes over the last couple of weeks talking about this stuff, but it's more of a, it's more confusing and harder to do than ever before, I think, because you've got not only the app sort of hinting at new things, whether it be carousels or Instagram making the grid bigger and trying to make it look like TikTok or doing all these weird things that confuse you.

You've also got people telling you what to do and this is the new trend and this is what you, and it's like, it's just information overload, man, at all times and it's really hard to navigate.

Mike Johnston (13:09.751)
Yeah. And I just don't care to play the game anymore.

Eddy (13:14.83)
No, either do I, man. think that's it.

Mike Johnston (13:16.003)
We'll keep everybody posted on our future plans, but speaking of productivity and doing lots of stuff, you and I in the past month have both had studio experiences and we both experienced something that we were not quite prepared for, which is it was hard to book the studio because the studios are in demand, which is unreal. We were on the precipice to use...

Eddy (13:37.442)
Yeah.

Eddy (13:40.91)
Yeah

Mike Johnston (13:41.593)
I'm not sure that that word ends with piss, but so I might have said that wrong but press a puss. Nope, that's worse. Okay. So anyways, I'll cut this out. my god. Thanks. How red am I right now? I'm blushing. Okay. We're on the, we were in trouble. It looked like studios were going away.

Eddy (13:43.754)
No, I think...

Eddy (13:51.992)
But you went for it, mate. Fair play. You went for the most complex word I've ever heard.

Eddy (14:06.84)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (14:06.955)
Last time that I did videos in Nashville for Minel, we were in a studio that in its heyday was charging $1,200 a day, and we were paying now $200 a day with an engineer, and they said, whatever day you want, whatever time you want. The only thing they had going on, and this is not a joke, the only thing they had going on that week was a studio tour for students, like grade school kids, to see what studios used to be like.

Eddy (14:33.624)
Wow.

Mike Johnston (14:34.799)
So that was, and that was like a year and a half ago. So this is when I did the, not the four stage practice method, but the page to the gig video. So like 45 minutes long. And they were like, yeah, come on in. What do want do, Monday? You want to do a Saturday? You want to do a Friday night? We don't care. Like, we're just sitting here.

Eddy (14:44.837)
yeah.

Eddy (14:51.534)
Stay next to it, eh? Why not?

Mike Johnston (14:53.411)
Now, we had to find, we couldn't book any of the studios that we had originally wanted. And we had to find a different studio, which ended up being amazing. And I loved the place, but we could barely get in the prices. Honestly, to me, haven't gone through the roof. They've leveled off to where it's like, I do feel comfortable paying that per day. That's a great price. That's, that's what it should be. I felt like I was cheating you guys before. And then way before that, I felt like you were cheating me. Now we've kind of hit a place. So you went to Rockfield, which is one of the most famous

Eddy (15:11.808)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (15:23.185)
studios in all of the UK, were they like out of business or was it like you had to like schedule your time?

Eddy (15:30.19)
Oh mate, I had to schedule the time. Like originally, I hit up two different studios just in case. And I thought I was being like really smart and being like, I'll get to take my pick here. I might do a day there. I might do a day there.

Mike Johnston (15:43.801)
I'm gonna head over to Peter Gabriel's place, knock that out.

Eddy (15:46.23)
Exactly, I might do half a day there actually and then just chill for the rest of the day.

Mike Johnston (15:49.327)
I'll probably do hi-hat at Gabriel's place Kick and snare over at Rockfield Swing by Grouse Lodge in Dublin Ireland and knock out the overheads and maybe a shaker

Eddy (15:53.652)
Yeah, I might need my overheads. Yeah.

Eddy (16:02.636)
Yeah, exactly. mean, one of the guys I messaged, he replied being like, it will have to be next year though. And I remember this being like, when was it? It was like, out of summer, six months left of the year or five months or something. I was like, whoa, okay. Yeah, that's cool. No worries about that.

Mike Johnston (16:22.605)
Why, did you guys have a fire? Did you have a fire in your rebuilding? What do mean next year?

Eddy (16:27.562)
And yeah, and then I quickly realised that, my God, like, you know, this is coming back and it is so good. And obviously when I went to Rockfield, I was chatting to the owner and the engineer and they just said, yeah, they're like super busy and people are coming back. And it was interesting actually, I had a conversation with Nolly, you know, Nolly from Get Good Drums? Absolute legend, like so good at what he does, it's crazy, but.

Mike Johnston (16:48.973)
Yep, of course. Yeah, and from periphery.

Eddy (16:55.854)
It was a short conversation. He probably won't, hopefully he doesn't mind me saying, but this was a while back now and we were just, he was mixing a live performance of mine that I haven't yet put out, which is classic of me, just over analysing my playing, thinking I'm the worst drummer in the world. But anyway, the mix was amazing. We briefly had a conversation about like the current state of recording and this, that and the other, because it's interesting because obviously he makes get good drums, which is, you know.

Mike Johnston (17:07.884)
Okay.

boy.

Eddy (17:23.862)
replacements or triggers or whatever you want to call them, samples. And he was saying, yeah, it's almost as if like, you know, the bands with money and the real players are almost going back in time. And then I remember you sending me a voice note a couple of days ago saying that that's what the studio said in America as well. So it's interesting. feel like, and it's, in my opinion, it was inevitable. We had to get to this point, but if you can make a number one record,

Mike Johnston (17:26.253)
Yeah. Samples.

Eddy (17:53.344)
in the spare bedroom of your mum's house on a laptop and a mini keyboard, one of the short ones, with, and that's it, then that is amazing in some way, but also crazy in another because there's nothing that separates you. There's nothing that separates you from the person that has spent their whole life practising an instrument or practising songwriting or whatever it may be. If everyone's using the same thing and the outcome is the same,

people are gonna get to the point where they start doing things differently to separate themselves and sound different and feel different and stand out from the crowd. And weirdly, that's now what's happening. People are now going back to studios and trying to record with other musicians, record one take, use a room, don't use samples like people have started to do, which is 100 % replace everything. So it's interesting, man. But that's what the guy said to you, right?

Mike Johnston (18:42.755)
Right.

Mike Johnston (18:46.719)
And yeah, so I just looked up the studio because it was way, was almost like, I don't want to call it.

a boutique studio, but it was like a boutique studio. You walk in, the vibe in the lobby was like amazing, but it wasn't one of those studios, know, some of those massive studios in Rockfield might be like this, but you kind of walk in and then the hallways start and it's like, all right, that's, you know, control room A, control room B, that's live room A, live room B, live room C. There's vocal booth down there. And it becomes like this little labyrinth. This was like, you walk into the lobby and it was very well, whoever decorated this place had the vibe going.

vibe was killer. And then right from the lobby, you see the control room and the live room. And that's the whole studio. The live room was plenty big to track drums or track grand pianos or choirs or anything you want. And the control room had everything you you see the big console and you know, I wasn't nerding out too much. I don't know if it was a Neve or what, but it was a beautiful massive console. And then you see the racks of gear. It's like, cool, they have all the outboard gear.

And then you see their mic closet and you're like, okay, we're good. You know, they've got all the things. So the place is called Soul Train Studios and the manager, Sam, is the person I talk to the most. And we just had a blast chatting about all this stuff. And at first I just kind of came in and started setting up and get, by the way, I was there, everybody to record videos for Minel. So I was recording educational content for Minel and for their social media channels. So you get there at like, you know, 9 a.m. start setting up.

the kit doing the thing and then the producer comes in his name's Steven and he's setting up the mics and I'm trying to tell him like hey just a heads up I like a very natural sound he's like I know I've worked with you like three times I get it and I'm like okay just I because it seems like there's like 27 mics here and he's like that's how I get my natural sound and like okay fine by me so and he does he gets the best sound ever and it's changed my sound at the studio here we'll talk about that later but anyways

Eddy (20:38.84)
Hahaha!

Mike Johnston (20:49.615)
So during the breaks, I just started asking Sam, like, so what are you seeing come through here the most? Is it all country? Is it rock? Is it pop? Is it funk? And he was like, dude, we're so slammed. Now this is, I don't know if they call it, they probably don't in Nashville call it Studio Row, but I would call it Studio Row. Like you turn down this street and it looks like houses, but every single house is a recording studio. And there's like probably like 15 of them just in this like little.

Eddy (21:13.356)
school.

Mike Johnston (21:18.287)
Hey, I'm right here, camera. I'm right here. Thank you. Sorry. For those of you also still not watching, my camera just bugged out and caught focus on like a candle behind me. And I couldn't maintain this audio-only podcast while being out of focus. Okay.

one, two, three, four.

This is the worst episode ever. Welcome into lesson 185. Let's hope our guest in two weeks is not listening to this episode. These guys are like two monkeys having intercourse with a football. Anyways, okay, so.

Eddy (21:45.73)
We are professional podcasters people. This is brilliant. Welcome in.

Mike Johnston (22:04.791)
I'm asking Sam, like, are you seeing come through here? And he said, dude, we're so busy. And he's in a place where there's like 10 or 15 studios next door to him. And they still like it was hard to book this place. But the other thing he was telling me was that like, he was like, you know, we used to no matter who came in here, as soon as they came in and track drums, we sliced all the 16th notes and we moved every single note. Because yes, there are automations to do that. But

Sometimes it hallucinates sometimes it gets it wrong and so he's like it's just easier just to do it by hand But we put you on the grid no matter what it doesn't even matter how good you are We're still gonna slice it up and move you so it's flawless and he's like we're not we're being asked to not do that anymore and These players especially these drummers are coming in and they have great time But there's just micro nuances that let you know It's a human being that we can't recreate in a machine and and he was saying exactly what we've been talking about for

on this podcast which is now people are trying to prove to their audience that they track this for real. they're using basically their social media is almost going back to like.

Was it Nothing Else Matters by Metallica that was the studio video where they're in the studio the whole time? Yeah, so that's now the new social media 30 years later is like, we're proving we did this. And it's like, OK, that's how it was done. And I would assume there's probably some 45 and over drummers that are showing up on a lot of modern records because those probably 50 and over, those cats were trained.

Eddy (23:21.42)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Mike Johnston (23:45.335)
to not slice up the tape and to just be perfect all the time. So yeah, so it's a good time for the studios, but even more so for like...

Eddy (23:49.794)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (23:58.287)
the young musicians that have never recorded in a studio, that was actually my biggest fear as a teacher was like, oh man, you might never get the experience to do this. how would you know if you wanna do this for a living if you don't get to, even in your local town, you should be able to find a studio, book a day and go track a song with your local band just to have the experience.

Eddy (24:02.798)
Hopefully.

Eddy (24:16.994)
Yeah, 100%. And also like the value thing comes back into this. Like we always talk about this on this podcast. Like we spoke a couple of episodes about paying for things from your favourite creators, whether it be a course or an ebook or a lesson or whatever. And I think that comes into it. Like we all have a little practise room, whether it be a shipping container, you hire a room or you have it in your house or an electric kit. But like when you hire somewhere,

Mike Johnston (24:31.001)
Yes.

Eddy (24:45.542)
you want to get your bang for your buck and you practice and you rehearse the thing you're going to do in the studio and then once you're there you soak it all up, you're not on your phone, you're like absorbing what the engineer is doing and you're also like, you're just trying to make the best of what, of the time you've got in that room. And when I was there doing the course I thought, mate, I might just book this place to do a couple of YouTube videos, like play through videos because it's like...

Mike Johnston (25:10.275)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eddy (25:13.262)
you value what you're doing and it means more to you and nothing flies by and nothing like is a wasted moment or nothing is, it doesn't matter, just chop it up or, it doesn't matter, like, we can do that again next week. It's like, no, just use the time you've got there and cherish whatever comes from that environment. And it's so interesting that he said people aren't chopping up the drums. that's kind of how, yet again, I saw this.

Mike Johnston (25:28.43)
Right.

Eddy (25:41.166)
Not to say I was that guy who predicted but in the back of my head I always kind of hoped we would get to this point where you're like actually no like It's not it's not about being like, you know the the tightest Like sounding like a machine or whatever it's about having an energy or a feel or a vibe and an atmosphere on the kit and I'm so glad glad that's coming back into it because I think we overlooked the simplicity of things for a long time and we started to do

Mike Johnston (25:47.62)
Yeah.

Eddy (26:10.542)
the most craziest fills that we could ever think of. And actually it's all about playing the simple things, but playing those with character. And when you start slicing stuff around and putting it to the grid, you lose that character. You just do 100%. You sound like a drum machine. And what's the point of doing it if that's what's gonna happen, you know?

Mike Johnston (26:19.502)
Man.

Mike Johnston (26:23.63)
Totally.

Mike Johnston (26:28.815)
And isn't that like, I don't know, that's the journey that we all fall in love with, which is, okay, now that you and I can both play, boom, debbi boom, we've got our pop filled down. Okay, so do we play it the same or are you saving the toms all the way till the last hit and everything's on the snare? Okay, well that's different than, you know, or whatever, or maybe it's a flam kick for pap boom, black goon, da da doom.

Eddy (26:49.838)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (26:58.839)
All those little nuances are what separate us even when we have access to the same information. And those nuances are, that's what makes us human. And I love that stuff. And so yeah, was a really fun experience. The other thing that I really noticed in this situation or remembered from being in studios,

Back in 1884 when Simon Says got signed was so crazy. Dude, trying to get a wagon to get to the studio, like the wagons were all booked. We couldn't find like, I was like, man, trying to pay with Native American wampum and they're not letting it happen. So anyways, moving on. Dude, we're literally just not putting this episode out. I've said piss, puss, Native American wampum, it's game over. So anyways.

Eddy (27:28.494)
You

Eddy (27:46.169)
my god, this is the best episode yet.

Mike Johnston (27:48.655)
So what I remembered was what it's like to and you probably especially since you were I was doing educational stuff but you were doing music I forgot how creative of an environment studios are because they have all the gear in the world

And they are the environment to be like, why don't we just try a shaker on that? And you're like, okay. And you go grab a shaker and then like the producer gets just as excited to be like, I've got this mic from 1960, like the Beach Boys used it and he hooks up this mic and then you're playing a shaker through it. And he's like, no, that's not it. Maybe if you just like crumpled up like a bottle, like, okay, I'll do that. Like a plastic bottle and like that the studios provide that creative environment or especially like where you were and where I was in Nashville.

They're like, do you want to try like, I don't know, maybe like a trumpet on this? Let me call Jason real quick. Jason lives right down the street and he comes in with his trumpet and he plays a little melody and it's like, that's just, I'm not saying that you can't do that in your bedroom. mean, I Jacob Collier is an amazing example of like some guy that's like, I'll just have like, you know, the dude from Coldplay swing by the house and he'll just track some vocals. But that's a, how many Jacob Colliers are there?

Eddy (28:40.184)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (29:02.467)
that actually make it not a lot, you know, but like there is in a recording studio, it's just such an amazing place for creativity and experimentation. And I just I'm just so happy that it's coming back.

Eddy (29:12.557)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (29:18.127)
but also not to where it was. Because there was the reason why everyone's recording in their bedroom. It's not technology. It's because studios got greedy. And it's like, well, I'm sorry, can't, you we're a garage band in our teens. We can't afford $800 a day for a local studio. $300 a day? We could probably ask our parents to chip in. We could do that, you know, or whatever it is.

Eddy (29:35.566)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, make for sure.

Eddy (29:40.95)
I also think time comes into it as well. think, and what we spoke about with social media, that might actually come into the situation that I'm thinking of. basically like everything is so, the world became, and I think it probably still is, but very impatient. Like if you think of an idea, you're expected to just create it like that. Get your phone out, do it, post it, move on to the next thing. And I think music just isn't like that, you know?

Mike Johnston (29:59.383)
Yes.

Eddy (30:09.87)
It can, things can work, things can just not work. And also you need the time to throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks. And like you're saying, when you're in a studio, you can do that. And there's no, like you could quite easily get a drum machine and do the same thing, but like it's not always about that. It's not all about just, okay, what's the most efficient, fastest thing to get to the end product. It's never about that. Music is never that, you know, people write music.

Mike Johnston (30:10.02)
Right.

Mike Johnston (30:36.591)
Totally.

Eddy (30:39.724)
they love the joy of writing a song and then performing it. When it's recorded, it's not, you know, that's not really the thing. It's the whole process of it is creating it, getting this idea from your head, through your body out into an instrument. And if you remove that part, that's a big part missing in my opinion. So I think the whole patience and like loving the journey, even though that sounds so cliche and cringe to say, it's so true, man. Like sitting down.

and listening to a drum take that you've just gone in there and you've practiced and you've worked at this thing and you nailed it, there's nothing more magical than that. Do know what I mean? Nothing more magical than that. And I think.

Mike Johnston (31:20.249)
Dude, 100%. And I think that there's also a thing where like, if you were going into the studio just to track, like you've got it all perfected.

then besides drums, because we do benefit from a live room, but almost everything else, like, all right, let's just nail it. The whole point of the studio is the creative process of Charlie being behind the desk and saying, hey, real quick, can you try this? And then you end up with something that you weren't going to do when you got there. And I think that that is such a cool thing to be like, well, let's try this. And that's why a day rate is so important compared to

Eddy (31:52.078)
definitely.

Mike Johnston (32:01.047)
an hourly rate because if you're on a day rate you don't have that pressure of like every single time that clock ticks to the next number we owe another hundred dollars it's like just pay for the day and

Eddy (32:10.254)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (32:12.865)
Chill out and it's going to be fine. You're going to get it done. You'll be there until you know the wee hours of the night, but you'll get it done. But you're also going to end up with something better than what you had before. think another thing that we should talk about is the benefit to modern technology and people having a laptop, an interface and a couple mics is now unlike 20, 30 years ago. Now you get to practice for the big event. You get to track yourself with a click and listen back on your own and you get to make that

Eddy (32:13.774)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (32:42.721)
that progress on your own before you just show up in a studio. I literally went from playing in a rock band and then at 20 years old getting a record deal and then my first real recording studio time was at Ocean Way in Hollywood with Marilyn Manson next door recording his album. And they're like, you're a little behind the click. like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't hear a click, I hear a cowbell. And they're like, the cowbell is the click. And I'm like, well, Tom, then say what the F you mean because I don't,

Eddy (33:12.012)
Yeah. Help! Yeah.

Mike Johnston (33:12.855)
I've never done this in my life and I'm a child Help! never, you know, and they're like, I'm like, wait, I just heard through the, did you say Josh Freeze through the talk? Is he here? God. God. I'm getting replaced.

Well now you get to do that with drumless tracks. You can go to Epidemic Sound and get drumless tracks and you can use Moises and take out the drums and you can do all this stuff and train for the big event. But just know that just because you did it at home does not mean you can do it in the studio. Just because you can swim a hundred laps in a pool, don't just jump in the ocean and be like, I'll head out to that island. It's like, it's different. It's different.

Eddy (33:42.835)
my god.

Eddy (33:50.126)
It is very different, mate. my God, mate. For a couple of years, actually, I did a lot of library music, which is kind of like Epidemic Sound, but before Epidemic Sound was really big, it was like you would have 10 songs. Yeah, like we did like a metal one and then we did like a rock and roll one and then like a pop one and those sort of things. you could...

Mike Johnston (34:02.306)
Okay.

Mike Johnston (34:06.329)
jingles and stuff.

Mike Johnston (34:12.482)
Okay.

Eddy (34:16.448)
You could sit in the studio and record 15, 20 tracks in a day. They're short tracks, like maybe two minutes long, but you don't know them. And I remember like doing those thinking, my God, like, I just wish every drummer in the world could experience this, man. Because I think recording in a studio in a somewhat pressured environment is the most positive thing you can do because it shows you that forget about all the crazy stuff that you're practicing on your own. Like, can you just...

playing time, hit the drum well, and also just play music that you don't necessarily know. And then also, can you create your own parts when you've got like two producers looking at you, you're looking at the clock, not knowing what's going on. And the studio for me, it really, I think now that it's affordable and people can do it, I honestly encourage anyone in a band, whether you're in a cover band or whatever, to put yourself in that situation and you will learn so much about yourself.

everything that you've practiced, realize what you haven't practiced. Exactly, mate, exactly. my God, even doing this course, mate, I was like, please just like realize, and I said this to you in a voice note, it's really hard to do, for anyone watching the course, like please just understand that this isn't easy, do you know what mean? And it might look easy as the viewer, but I'm telling you, I don't know this music and...

Mike Johnston (35:15.907)
Holy. Yep, everything that you think that matters that doesn't matter and vice versa.

Eddy (35:45.198)
It's tough to do.

Mike Johnston (35:46.105)
Well, and also like how it's such a weird thing to like have to get across to the audience that is drummers, like your course is made for drummers. Hey guys.

I can rip chops. Like I really can. There's no need for that right now. All I have to do right now is play these parts, but flawlessly. And playing simple drumming flawlessly, that is the highest level of professional drumming. It's so hard to do. And that's what's tough is like, I hear people all the time just kind of being like, yeah, I could do it. it's like, no, just because you jammed to like an Eve six track, please don't think you could have tracked that.

Because a great example would be, I don't know, any Beatles song ever. Could I play that song in a cover band? Yes, at a nice B- level. Could I have tracked that song with John Lennon and Paul McCartney staring at me through the glass and then making random requests and being like, just make sure, remember, on the third verse, you don't crash in the middle, but you do on the first two. Yeah, and I'm supposed to keep track of that. And it's like.

It's a whole different ball of wax, man. So I think basically exactly what you said. If you can book some studio time.

Eddy (36:55.95)
It really is, man.

Mike Johnston (37:01.547)
And you know, most towns do have or most cities have a local studio that'll have decent gear. You're looking for somebody that's, know, and I mean, even if the gear isn't insane, there's still going to be someone pressing a space bar. It's not going to be you in a room by yourself. And that's what I found too. Like the producer, because I don't, I'm not tracking music, the producer, no nerves whatsoever. I know for a fact that I'm a better drummer than that producer is.

Eddy (37:17.165)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (37:29.519)
I do also know that he probably worked with greats in the last three weeks, so he's just like, Jesus. So wait, this guy's endorsed? But I'm not worried about the producer, because one, I don't want a gig. So it's like, I don't need to impress him. What was hard for me was I haven't filmed videos with another person in the room in a long time. And in their minds, they're like, we're bringing in the guy. We're bringing in Mike Johnson. He makes videos all day. He'll knock out 100 of these things. And all of a sudden, it looks like I have Tourette's, because every...

Eddy (37:34.092)
You

Eddy (37:40.654)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Eddy (37:47.404)
yeah, how was that?

Mike Johnston (37:58.457)
time I talk, I slap myself, I'm keep screwing up. I'm clapping because I'm used to clapping for myself. So I know where to cut the video. And dude, was it was it was fine. But it took me probably three videos to become myself because I'm so used to like not having anyone watch me the process. Like, OK, here's the process. You want to see it? OK, here we go.

Eddy (38:06.466)
Yeah.

Eddy (38:17.335)
Amen.

Yeah, go.

Mike Johnston (38:23.663)
Let's say that I'm working on a little samba thing. Crash. Crash fades out. Okay, we want to come back in with a laugh. Alright guys, so it's like no one should see that stuff. No one should ever see me have to get into the laugh.

Eddy (38:36.014)
You

Eddy (38:40.558)
Yeah, that is a peek behind the curtain that no one needs to see. Do you know what mean? I'm there,

Mike Johnston (38:44.943)
And I was like you guys are gonna have to leave for this moment because I have to get back I have that like we're doing a cut from a crash and I'm coming in with like how excited or like this one like My god, how sick is that groove? It's like okay, but I wasn't that happy like two seconds ago

Eddy (39:00.173)
Mm-hmm.

Eddy (39:05.998)
my god, you're preaching to the choir mate, I love it. I'm so glad someone else went through that. Honestly, when I was doing the course, it was only me and Ollie in there, but still I was like, mate, that's what I was most nervous about. I really didn't, I wanted to be myself, but like that peek behind the curtain of you in a room with a camera, like you, it's different than normal life and no one should see it. But mate, yeah, it's so hard. But mate, when you said that.

Mike Johnston (39:18.479)
Totally.

Mike Johnston (39:28.591)
than real life. You are performing. So weird. Yeah.

Eddy (39:34.754)
when you made a mistake and you clapped or whatever or hit yourself. One of my mates who dabbles in acting, he's really good, I won't say who, but he also acted for a very mainstream UK, sort of, not sitcom, what do call them, when they're on every time. Anyway, it's on like five times a week here in the UK. And he said, basically, they don't care if you muck up at all. Like if you get your words wrong,

Mike Johnston (39:38.499)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (39:56.557)
Yeah, okay.

Eddy (40:03.346)
or you make a mistake, they don't really care and they'll use it, right? So if you make a mistake, what you have to do is either clap or swear and then you know they definitely won't use it. So for example, let's say you nailed your words but it was a rubbish take and you kind of looked at the camera or something like that, you're doomed, that's being used. So every time he made a mistake, he would literally say like a swear word and then clap and they would have to edit it out.

Mike Johnston (40:31.651)
I love that, I love that. Yeah, well, it's pretty real, because if I've got sticks in my hands, then I don't clap, I hit those together. Sometimes I just snap. Literally, these guys don't know my process, and they're used to trying to do educational content with people that don't do educational content. So they almost just keep rolling through, like, hey guys, so this is my go-to Phil.

Eddy (40:31.756)
Yeah, maybe you made me just think of that, but yeah.

Eddy (40:44.205)
Mm-hmm.

Eddy (40:47.757)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (41:00.911)
Well, if you have any questions, hit us up in the DMs. And it's like, okay, like, that's one take. I mean, you kind of nailed it, I guess, like, it's fine. And I'm coming in with a whole different, like, okay, now we're going to switch. And I'm telling the guy that's doing this, he's like, yeah, I set up all five cameras. You don't have to tell me that we're on overhead now. And I'm like, I know I'm just saying, because I'm talking to him in the edits, like, all right, that was eight bars. But just remember when you're, what's that?

Eddy (41:02.392)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eddy (41:07.63)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Eddy (41:22.69)
Yeah, and you're also talking to yourself. You're also talking to yourself because you're used to editing the videos.

Mike Johnston (41:29.707)
I'm used to talking to Mike the editor. I'm saying to the camera, just remember even though we went eight bars, we're only using four bars and the last four bars is the fade out while I'm talking in the next part. we go. And it's just like, I could just see the kid, he's looking down on his iPad like, what the hell is going on? So anyways, it was a great experience. I don't think I'll be hiring staff anytime soon. I need to be by myself.

Eddy (41:54.156)
my God, No, mate, I fully agree, mate. Honestly, after I shot the videos with Oli in the room, I came back here and did like two in my shipping container. And it was so enjoyable because I could just be, I could do my weird little things. I could have the camera set up. I could move the light and be a perfectionist and no one at all. I didn't feel guilty. I also didn't sound like a freak. But yeah, man, I agree. That's a peek behind the curtain.

Mike Johnston (42:08.804)
Yes.

Mike Johnston (42:14.798)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (42:20.247)
I'm starting a company called Only Child Productions where I'm it's just me.

Eddy (42:26.658)
Hahaha!

Mike Johnston (42:27.425)
And by the way, I'll be the one speaking for your product. So I'll come by your place. I'll pick up your little bar soap. I'll come here. I'll film the whole thing. I'll edit it and I'll deliver it to you. And then we won't talk after that. Like it's just only child productions. Let me do this by myself. Anyways, so everybody, please let us know through DMs or whatever, you know, what your most recent studio experience was like. Are you willing to maybe get on Google today and type in your hometown and comma recording studio?

Eddy (42:38.754)
Yeah. It's so true,

Mike Johnston (42:57.331)
We would love for you to do that because there's just nothing like it. I promise you recording by yourself with your laptop and a click track and your microphones is nothing like tracking in a recording studio. And even if you're not in a band, take some drumless tracks in there and just track one or two songs just to get the experience down and see what that's like.

Eddy (43:16.174)
Yeah.

Mike Johnston (43:19.375)
Also, if you can help us out, write a little review for the podcast. That really helps other drummers find this thing. We appreciate it more than you know. I am headed to LA in about an hour, going down for a grand opening of the Gretsch Lounge in Burbank, California. think it's just basically, so GAVA now owns the distribution for Gretsch. So, was DW Drums that owned it, now GAVA owns it. And GAVA apparently is doing pretty well, because they gave Gretsch a pretty penny to build out the

Eddy (43:29.421)
Woof.

Eddy (43:33.132)
Yeah, what is that? What is that about?

Eddy (43:40.675)
Yep.

Mike Johnston (43:49.281)
Gretsch Lounge and so it's basically a US hub for Gretsch artists to come and let's say that as an artist I was trying to get a new kit but I don't really know like USA Custom, Broadcaster, Brooklyn, this is where you would go and try them out. It's also where you would go to see like okay blue sparkle or blue glass glitter like well can I see it in a 12 inch Tom? It's like they have basically a row of 12 inch Toms that have every finish they make that really if you're kind of

Eddy (43:50.295)
Oof.

Eddy (44:16.525)
Nice.

Mike Johnston (44:19.305)
Looking into getting your final like this is my kit for life You should see the finish in person rather than just picking it from the internet. So anyways Yeah, they're having the grand opening of that for the Gretch artists and then by the way I don't even know if you knew but I didn't know because I was like that's why I'm only going down there for that. It's on Tuesday Then a bunch of people asked me like so you're coming down for NAMM and I was like, no I'm not why they're like well NAMM's this weekend. Did you know that?

Eddy (44:25.102)
Yeah.

Eddy (44:39.726)
Mm-hmm.

Eddy (44:46.52)
That's nope, I did not know that. I thought it was in the summer.

Mike Johnston (44:49.323)
I had no idea. No, summer NAMM used to happen in Nashville, but winter NAMM is the NAMM. It just always feels like the summer because it's in LA.

Eddy (45:00.522)
my god, yeah, mate. God, I'm so out of touch with the music industry, mate. It's my little shipping container and then to your shipping container. Well, not shipping container, to your studio, and that's it. That's as far as I go. Yeah, that is as far as I go. Yeah.

Mike Johnston (45:02.511)
Same. Same.

And that's it.

That's it.

Yeah, that's that's the drum world for both of us. Anyways, so if you are going to NAMM have a blast, especially if it's your first time there There's nothing that really compares to your first time going to NAMM. Check out all the gear Break it up. I suggest seeing all the big companies go to Tama Ludwig Pearl Yamaha Gretsch DW see the big companies then go get some lunch then go see the symbol companies get some dinner then the next day go check out the boutique companies It's it's very overwhelming. So if you are going be safe. Have a blast

I will be there, like I said, I'm driving down today, which is Monday, then I'll be there Tuesday and then driving home on Wednesday. But I'm just excited to see the Gretsch Lounge and hang out with all the I mean, because Gretsch, I would say has the most amount of personal heroes as artists, like Gretsch's roster has a lot of people that I really look up to. And so I'm just excited to like go in there and be like, OK, I'm hanging. But at the same time, like

Eddy (45:50.862)
Yeah, man.

Eddy (46:00.973)
Uh-huh.

Eddy (46:05.176)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (46:11.087)
I mean, I have all your albums, dude. I have all your albums. No, no. I mean, I've done these things before and it's always been a really cool mix of, I don't want to say names because then it's like.

Eddy (46:12.884)
Yeah, so do you know who's gonna be there?

Eddy (46:28.012)
like touring, like drummers and then studio drummers and yeah, yeah.

Mike Johnston (46:32.719)
Yeah, and then literally like a few legends where I'm like, holy crap, that's Steve Ferroni, like, oh my God, like, that's Jesus, and that's Gary Novak, and then there's, you know, you know, maybe somebody like Jason McGirr from Death Cab for Q2 where you're like, okay, contemporary, modern drummer, but also...

Eddy (46:40.622)
amazing.

Eddy (46:49.219)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Johnston (46:51.405)
badass and then, who knows, maybe Mark Julianna's in town so Mark swings by and then last time I was there, Matt Sorem from Guns N' Roses was there, last time we did a Gretch Hang, Gergo Borlai.

Eddy (46:52.334)
Amazing.

Eddy (47:01.07)
Mate, I regret not saying hi to Mark. When we were in Mexico, we played the same festival and I was having breakfast on my own. I'd just sat down, had breakfast, looked up and Mark was coming into the hotel and I was like, he's a bit far away. I'll say hi later and never got to see him again. And I was like, for God's sake, I should have been like.

Mike Johnston (47:08.648)
yeah.

Mike Johnston (47:20.217)
Yeah.

Were you guys on the same festival or were you just both in the same town at the same time? Okay, so he was there with St. Vincent and you were there with Busted.

Eddy (47:26.026)
Yeah, same festival. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and was like the hotel where everyone stays. So it was just like band and band, know, bands everywhere basically. But yeah, I didn't get to see him because I would love to say hello in person, but there we go. There we go.

Mike Johnston (47:33.08)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mike Johnston (47:40.175)
He's a good dude and he's a legend. So, all right, everybody. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Like I said, review the podcast if you can. If you want to, if you want to support this, we, if you want to support this podcast, just click on the link in the description, head on over to patreon.com forward slash drum with Mike and Eddie. That's how this podcast remains ad free. But for now, episode one 85 is in the can.

Eddy (47:47.726)
Let's go!

Eddy (48:01.39)
BOOM! There you go. That was a banger. I dunno, I dunno what happened there, BOOM!

Mike Johnston (48:04.217)
Boom? We've never had a boom from you? Wow! Whee! Boom!